This week’s conversation is with Peter Shapiro, a music industry legend and perhaps the most influential independent concert promoter of his generation.

Over his eclectic career, Peter has produced several acclaimed and groundbreaking projects, and was listed on Billboard’s Power 100 List for “Most Influential People in the Music Business”.

Peter is also the owner of several legendary music venues around the country which have hosted some of the biggest names in modern music – The Rolling Stones, The Grateful Dead, Bob Dylan, Pink Floyd, Leonard Cohen, Snoop Dogg, David Bowie, U2, The Roots, and so many more. In total, Peter has played a major role in putting on over 10,000 shows and concerts in his lifetime.

Most recently, Peter published his first book, The Music Never Stops, which chronicles insights, stories, and back-stage anecdotes from 50 of his most influential concerts.

But this conversation is not just about music – it’s about insights from a pioneer who paved the way in his industry through grit, resourcefulness, and utilizing the power of relationships. I can’t wait for you to learn from Peter and hear his incredible stories.

“I chase that magical feeling to power me into the next day and to want to do it again. Because you don’t really do what I do, putting on shows, just to make money. You do it because you love it.”

In This Episode:

No one does it alone

I’ve been able to pull off a lot. Everything that I’ve done, any one of the venues, or a film, or I have a music magazine, I have a music festival, I have kids shows, anything I do, everything’s a partnership. I come to it, and I know from experience, you can’t do it alone. You can’t do anything. So for me, all these things are collaborations. I love owning a music venue because it puts me in the middle, like you’re saying, instantly of a scene, of a hub of people. And you get to collaborate with different people every day.

The dream to make others’ dreams come true

My dream is in alignment with a lot of these musicians and the fans. I’m a fan. All the details matter. When you’re putting on a big show, how it goes on sale, when you get to the venue, going into the venue, the security experience, the box office experience, the bar experience, the bathroom, the sound, the lights, the floor, everything matters. If one of those pieces goes off, it’ll impact the rest of the rope. If you lose any piece of the rope, it breaks. Anyone listening knows you waited too long at the box office, if the bar line’s way too long, if the air’s off, if the sound’s annoying, your whole experience can be off, right? The feng shui’s… I am a fan and I look to make all those things be right for them and for me. Because if it’s off, it bothers me. I want to be at the show. I need that magical feeling to power me into the next day and want to do it again. Because you don’t really do what I do, putting on shows, just to make money. You should pick something else.

How does he think about his impact?

I don’t, I just do it. Other people have been called all those things, but I stay focused. The Netflix in my mind is about how to handle the security, or which guest are we going to have with this band? Or I got to make sure this person’s on the guest list. Remember, we said all the details matter. If all the details matter, this doesn’t get easy, ever, never. Even now, I’ve done lots of stuff, I’ve got a book. Before I got on the podcast with little details for my Burning Spirit show tomorrow in Central Park. Because when this person shows up at the door, I have to make sure their name’s down, and this, and that. So it gets easier maybe because I’ve done it 10,000 times, but it never gets easy, because if you want to do it well. Because if you’re doing it well, you’re doing all the details and really doing the details. And if you’re doing all the details, you don’t have time to think about what you call yourself.

Agility and adjustment

Sometimes people say, “What’s your big plan?” I don’t plan it. Now I’ve got these venues all over the country. I didn’t plan that really from the beginning, I’m going to go have the big venue in Vegas, in Nashville. It’s much more just one day at a time opportunities come, ideas come. Try to follow your gut instinct. And then I have leaned in when I’ve been at the fork in the road, take over a music magazine in 2009 when the world’s falling apart. But my gut was lean into taking over Relix. When Wetlands, I had the opportunity to take over this amazing legendary rock club, 1996, I’m 23 years old, I know nothing about running a venue, but I knew this place was incredible and once in a lifetime, so I leaned into it. A couple of big forks in road I’ve leaned into doing. I always try to collaborate, and I’m still going.

Utilizing technology in business

Certainly, if I wanted to pop a big show tomorrow, it’s much easier with technology and all the platforms for me to announce, “I’m doing Guns N’ Roses,” we did that once, “in two days.” We’re going to go on sale tomorrow. Today’s Tuesday. So let’s say we go on sale… We announce it on Instagram, and Facebook, and our website, Twitter, Guns N’ Roses, Brooklyn Bowl, Thursday. And it’s Tuesday, two days. We’re going to go on sale tomorrow at noon. That’s easy now. In the old days, there was no pushing it out on socials. We had to call the radio station and get Q104 or whatever in New York, or WPLJ, to announce it on the radio. We had to make flyers and cards and go to shows and hand them out. We couldn’t turn around a show as fast as I can now. So that’s the good part of technology.

The artist/client first approach

That’s why they’re my friends, and that’s what I lead with. You don’t do this to make money. Listen, I want to make the bands more money. I mean, I want to do well too. If the bands make more, we’ll get to do more shows. We’ll do two nights and then three nights. And then they’ll go to the next bigger venue I have. And as the venues get bigger, it’s harder to do the 100% merch. The bands want more money now actually. In the Vegas Brooklyn Bowl, it’s 2,500 people. We’re 80/20 a lot too on the merch. But the New York thing, we really tried to lead with 100, tried to do everything we could. And by the way, don’t underestimate hanging and eating the food and the bowling and the girlfriend or the boyfriend of the band is there during soundcheck, instead of sitting in an empty green room with a vegetable plate. We’ve got these lanes and this great food. And just trying to create an atmosphere for them that’s just better. That’s what we try to do.

Writing his book, “The Music Never Stops”

I’m kind of glad I wrote it. I was hesitant to do this book at first. I’m a little young, but I feel so good I’ve got it down now. Because I feel like you know after a physics test in high school or chemistry, when you took the final and you were done, you’re like, “Okay, I’m never going to need to know that chemistry, so I can push it out of my brain.” I’m so glad I went back. First of all, I don’t know if people who wait till the end of their life, I wouldn’t have remembered most of it in 20 years, 25 years. I barely remember it now. I had help. The internet helps. And I had a writer who helped me a lot, but I feel so good. And I’m glad I’ve leaned into being there a lot.

Chasing magic

I’m just chasing that feeling of being part of the show. Live music for me, it never fades. I don’t know what it is about. It just doesn’t fade every time that… And it powers me again to want more. And it’s beyond money or that I’m getting a massage. You have money and a nice car or a massage. By the way, I’ve done more and been successful because I didn’t make a lot of money. Because I think once you make a bunch of money, and maybe it will… I hope it happens one day for me. I think I will lose an edge. But I’ve made a lot of decisions that cost more. And this whole corporate shareholder return to shareholder philosophy, that does not jive with giving people… You got to spend extra to get the tie-dyed shirts with security guys. It’s not that much. Or even the lights. Some decisions cost more, you’ll make less. If a band asks for something extra. So I’ve leaned into that and probably made less. But I always try to make the decision that’s right for the moment. It’s not always the economic one.

Taking initiative

Here’s a good thing I learned. Ready? So I’m standing there, we’re hanging out. I introduce, “Pete Shapiro. By the way, I reached out to you. We’re working on this 3D…” Luckily the venue’s incredible and beautiful. Leonard Cohen goes across… They’re shooting a scene in a song, and he goes across the street to the coffee shop. No one knew where he was but this delayed things in the shoot, so I had some time there, talked to Paul and all this. I made a decision. Then Leonard comes back in and the band gets ready to shoot this scene. And here’s what I learned. Sometimes you want to leave early rather than be the last one standing. Because when you leave early, and I didn’t want to leave early, Leonard Cohen’s playing the Slipper with U2. But by leaving a little early, I got to go to Paul McGuinness, who’s the legendary manager of U2, and say, “Goodbye.” “Paul, good to see you. Love having you here. I got to go.” I made a thing. And he said, “Good to see you.” And I said, “By the way, I’ve been trying to reach you on this 3D thing. We want to show you this technology, and I’d love to show you our demo.” He pulled out his black book. He goes, “Great. When do you want to do it?” “Let’s do next week.” He put it in his black book, and we set up a time. I showed it to him, and I went and made a movie with him. If I had waited to watch the full Leonard Cohen performance, which I wanted to, I’m alone in the place, Paul McGuinness, he wasn’t going to say goodbye to Pete Shapiro. Any moment he could’ve just walked out and left. And if I had stuck around, he would’ve left. I wouldn’t have had a chance to say goodbye and say… He just would’ve left. I wouldn’t be in his black book. I actually believe just like that if I had stuck around and waited, he would’ve left. He would’ve not said goodbye. And I wouldn’t have a screening with him the next week, and I wouldn’t have made the movie. I wouldn’t have been able to reach him.

Follow the feeling and just go do it

Anyone who wants to do this, put on a show, anyone can. And I put on The Grateful Dead reunion, biggest concert maybe in America, by a band, three nights, Soldier Field. By the way, after those shows, there were 50 shows a night throughout Chicago off of it. But I still do Grateful Dead cover bands, little things. And anyone can do that. Anyone can go rent a bar in their town or city, and book a cover band book, their friend’s brand, their brother’s band for 40 people. You still need to book the band, book the venue, put it on sale, market the show, do the box office, do the sound check, put on the show, then settle the show after and pay the band. Even if you’re paying the band 50 bucks, 30 people show up. You’re still putting on a show. A lot of things that you have to do for 80,000 are the same for 80. So anyone hearing this, listening, who’s wanted to try it, you can do it in your backyard. You can do it and you can have 15. I still love going to small shows. You get that magic feeling. You don’t have to be in an arena to get the magic. It can show up anywhere, so anyone can do that.

A lesson learned from Bono

That demo of 3D technology that we showed Paul McGuinness… then we showed it to Bono. The lights came up in the theater. We were at a digital 3D test that we showed. And his question was… So the idea was to do a U2 3D movie. And he goes, “Okay. Well, will we be first?” “Yeah.” “Okay. Let’s do this.” So we did it. To be the first. But the other thing I’ve learned, starting a business, you talk about founders, being first is a lot harder. Sometimes you want to be second. A lot of people have made a lot of money out there, probably picked things up. So there’s the magic of being first. Creatives, the artist wants to be first, but as a business person, you might want to be second.